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Thursday, 6 May 2010

EAST COAST JAZZMEN v EAST COAST JAZZ BAND

I'm gonna need a bit of help sorting out this muddle with names!
The top picture is documented as being the East Coast Jazzmen, taken in 1968.
The picture below it is documented as being the East Coast Jazz Band, taken in 1973.
That was the easy bit!
From this, I deduced that, probably after a change in line-up, they just changed their name from Jazzmen to Jazz Band. Seemed logical to me.
However, after a wee bit of homework, I discovered that it was Andy Lothian who first formed the East Coast Jazz Band in 1958. The East Coast Jazzmen had a residency at the Invercarse in the 60's and the East Coast Jazz Band had a residency there too, in the 70's.
When I put both versions into Google for more info, both names crop up in equal measure and both appear to still be on the go!
So, are they the same outfit, who choose to change their name according to which style of music they play - ie, Jazzmen = "Trad jazz", Jazz Band = "Modern jazz"?
Are they 2 separate entities?
Are they perhaps just called East Coast Jazz, with the "Men" and "Band" an irrelevant addition?
If someone can supply the answer to that, it would be much appreciated, as I'm starting to develop a nervous twitch and may need to book myself into Liff soon!!
Anyway, both pictures were taken at the same spot in the Invercarse.
Top, 1968 line-up is - Jimmy Wallace - Ron Elder - Dave Fimister - Andy Tully - Harry Morrison - Les Cameron - Dave Moodie.
Below, 1973 line-up is - Jimmy Wallace - Dave Fimister - Doug Gow - Les Cameron - Ron Elder - Harry Morrison - Brian Rose.
Thanks to Mike Gallacher for the top photo.

25 comments:

  1. Dave Moodie is father of Paul , Bridge FM DJ and world's tallest dwarf !!

    Cousin Dupree

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  2. Ron Elder was the Dean of Dundee University's School of Education and Social Work and a former member of the band that eventually became the Average White Band. Very nice chap too.

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  3. I played alongside Dave in the professional band that took over the East Coast Jazzmen in 1962 playing Dixieland Jazz, mainly.

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  4. Dave and I in 1962 were the only Dundonians. The rest of the line-up were from Glasgow -leader Dean Kerr, trumpet, Bobby Happle, trombone, Maurice Rose, clarinet, Bill Lothian,drums (cousin of Andy)and John Dougherty(?), piano. Andy called me in when the previous bass-player died of a heart attack while the East Coast Jazzmen were playing Star Club, Hamburg. We toured Scotland and England from Easter to September when the work ran out as Traditional Jazz faded and the Beatles prospered.

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  5. I'm afraid you've got the picture captions wrong. The top picture is of the East Coast Jazz Band. That's my Uncle Andy playing the clarinet, and I know for certain that he was in the East Coast Jazz Band.

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  6. My sister Bonnie Lee sang with the Eastcoast jazzmen she has a picture of herself singing with the band

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  7. can you please tell me if that is Maurice Rose playing the clarinet in the bottom photo and not Brian Rose.

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    1. Its not Brian Rose or Maurice Rose its my Dad Doug Gow

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  8. jpmooney@ziggo.nl21 January 2011 at 01:42

    It's not Maurice Rose. He was with the substantially Glaswegian band that played professionally from late 1961 to mid-1962. It didn't have guitar - Dave Moodie played banjo and I played bass as of early 1962.

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  9. Thanks for your input everyone.
    I see there is still a bit of confusion about who's who!
    The photos & info I have up in the main caption were taken from 2 different sources.
    The top photo of the East Coast Jazzmen & band line-up details come from a book about Dundee/Dundonians, published a few years ago.
    The other photo of the East Coast Jazz Band & band line-up under it come from an album the band released in 1973.
    Unless I get documentary evidence that states otherwise, then the details in the caption will have to remain, along with the confusion!

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  10. The top picture is definitely the East Coast Jazzmen. That's my father, Dave Moodie, on guitar. But the picture was taken no later than 1966, when he emigrated to Canada.

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  11. Try You Tube - Broadcast Yourself - Storyville All Stars, for latest viewings of a few of the East Coast Jazzmen still playing.

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  12. @Mark, I just spoke to Dave Moodie (the guy I call Dad) and he told me that your uncle Andy Tully was in the East Coast Jazzmen and may well have been in the Jazz Band too. He also corrected my comment about the date of the top pic, saying that he emigrated in 1965.

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  13. Thanks @Greg Moodie. I was beginning to think I was going nuts. None of my family remembers the East Coast Jazzmen, only the East Coast Jazz Band, and we have a 7" single of the East Coast Jazz Band.

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    1. Hi, I would love to see a picture of your single please. What are the 2 tracks? What label is it on? What year was it released? What catalogue number does it have? Many thanks, Paul.

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    2. Hi Paul, I'm afraid I can't help you out right now. I'm not in the UK at the moment. When I get back I'll try to remember to dig it out. Most likely it's in the loft of my parents' house.

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  14. jpmooney@ziggo.nl12 January 2012 at 09:45

    I'm glad to hear Dave is still "around" if you can count Canada as around. I played bass in a small dance band with Andy Tully while we both were still at school. When I joined the East Coast in 1962 after their playing in Germany (Star Club, Hamburg)Andy had already taken a job on the boats and had been replaced by Morris Rose.

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  15. Andy Tully on the claranet used to come up to our house in Sutherland place after the Invercarse and play our piano and sheila andy lothians girl freind now wife would sing.

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  16. This is all very interesting, but even I Bryan Turner played a few times with the East Coast Jazz Band. One gig I remember was at St Andrews with Robin Hall and Jimmy MacGregor. We carted said duo back to the Salutation in Perth...boy could they put it away!!Thanks Harry (drums) for going on holiday and giving me the opportunity

    Bryan Turner

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  17. Ah … glad to be able to heighten the confusion … After forming the East Coast in 1958 (there was a band known as the east Coast Jazzband led by drummer Doug Forbes in 1955 which dis’band’ed in 1956) I called the band the East Coast Jazzmen – simple line-up of six of us. After the six won the Scottish jazz Championship in 1960, I augmented the six ‘men’ to and eight piece and recruited a female vocalist … so ‘band’ seemed more appropriate from then on. But both titles were used simultaneously for the three years I led the way. The original six piece East Coast Jazzmen line up, and Scottish champions were … – Dave (tpt.); Andy (clt.); Walter (tmbn) r Watson (bjo); Harry (dms) and myself (bass) –

    If you would like to hear the six ‘men’ playing a few weeks after we won the competition, you can do so at ...
    http://www.facebook.com/theandilothianstory …

    The second picture supporting the music is of the ‘men’ from the Parker St. Jazz club BEFORE The East Coast 'Jazzmen' won the competition … The other pics (including the first) are of the East Coast ‘Jazzband’ AFTER we won the competition, including pics of Pat Smullen and Dick McTaggart (vocalist and boxing vocalist) and Les Cameron (piano). Not pictured are vocalists Sheila Mitchell and Bonnie Lee … Happy Daze! …

    Andi Lothian

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  18. There is more to this confusion than you realise! There WAS an earlier group called the 'East Coast Jazzmen' started up about 1956-ish. It was led by Walter Jacobs(clarinet), Walter Fisher(trumpet); Gordon ?Reid?) (Trombone) Gerry Heggarty(banjo) DAVE MOODIE(guitar, and Cleve Yates(drums). This group competed in the Scottish Jazz-band Championships in Glasgow in early 1958?? coming third overall. It played regularly at the Dundee Jazz Club which was then located in Parker Street. It played at functions around Dundee locality and regularly at the (then) Dundee Tech Friday night dances. I left them in ?1958? to play with the dance band, 'the Bobby Hayes Sextet' throughout Angus and Dundee until we left for England in 1960. The dates I give are from memory and may be 1-year out (indicated by '??'! Cleve Yates New Zealand.

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  19. Just to try clarify some confusion which seems to muddy the waters (Muddy never came to Scotland I believe) ...the second picture above is of the East Coast at the Invercarse in 1973; the first is the East Coast probaby around 1965. No pics here of the East Coast who won the Scottish Jazzband Championship in 1960, although several of the 1960 band are featured above. Happy Daze!

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  20. The Dundee Jazz Club was started in 1951 on Sunday afternoons in the Chalet Ballroom Dock St. owned by the Duncan family. In 1952 the club moved to Parker St. Hall. The Pelican jazz band was founded at this time to play at the Dundee Jazz club, by Bill Hutton, trumpet; and Bert Powell clarinet; both DC Thomson employees. Doug Forbes was on drums, Jimmy Thomson, and John McHardie piano. The Pelican disbanded three years later.

    The resident band at the Parker St. jazz club in the mid-fifties became the East Coast Jazz band led jointly by Walter Fischer trombone and Walter Jacobs clarinet, and Doug Forbes on drums presumabnly after the advent of Cleve's stint. This band was third in the Scottish Jazzband championships and band played thereafter for a short while before disbanding due partly to ill health amongst two of its members.

    In 1958, bassist Andi Lothian (Jnr.) son of the then Tay St. palais bandleader, formed the East Coast Jazzmen comprising of Andy Tully, clarinet; Dave Fimister trumpet; Walter Fischer trombone; Watson Laing banjo; Harry Morrison drums and Andi on bass. Andi’s band won the Scottish Jazz-band championship in 1960. Retired Head teacher Dave Fimister still plays with the current East Coast, having given over fifty years of service to the Dundee Jazz scene.

    Andi started the Tomb jazz club in 1959 and moved the club between Parker St. and the Continental ballroom on Sunday evenings until late 1962 when the emergence of beat groups replaced the fashion of once thriving traditional jazz, both in Dundee and in Britain itself. The three ‘Big B Jazz Bands’ - Kenny Ball, Acker Bilk, and Chris Barber, all appeared at the Caird Hall on different dates during 1962 … marking the end of a decade of popular traditional jazz in Dundee …

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  21. This LAST entry seems to make sense of events and clears up the confusion over who, when, and where. Cleve Yates New Zealand 2014

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  22. Hallo jazz-friends in Scotland,
    I may complete the confusion about the "East-CoastöJazzmen" so as I played with them in January 1962 in Frankfurt at the jazzclub "Storyville" and in Feb.1962 in Wiesbaden at the "Jazz-House". The members were Dean Kerr, Bobby Happle, Mure Lawrie, Dave Moodie and Bill Lothian.
    Recently I made a CD of an old tape with them. If one of you "E-C-J" or friend is interested in a copie of it, please write to Klaus Zeller, Kirchstr. 32, D-35799 Merenberg.









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